In this podcast episode, we are going to chat with Tim Has, the founder of Bookinglayer.
We will talk about how a Bookinglayer helps surf camps and surf houses to improve their operations and sell surf packages.
We will also discuss how Bookinglayer started, how they got the first customers, and how they operate as a remote team.
Listen podcast on iTunes, Spotify or Soundcloud.
What we discussed:
What was the initial idea and how did Bookinglayer start?
How did Tim build the first version of the software?
How did they get their first customer?
How do they operate as a remote team?
How is Bookinglayer different comparing to other booking softwares?
What are the challenges of surf camps and retreat operators that don't use a booking software?
How can surf houses add non-surf activities and sell more packages?
Podcast and interview by Peter
Surfpreneurs podcast is hosted by Peter Fabor, the founder of Surf Office.
Surf Office helps surf houses, hotels and villas boost their group bookings by hosting retreats with tech companies searching for productive team-building experiences.
Learn more about how to become a property partner of Surf Office.
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Transcription (automatic, sorry for typos)
[00:00:00] Hi, we are listening surfpreneurs podcast, where we interview entrepreneurs with surf related businesses. I'm Peter. And I'm your host today in this episode, I'm going to chat with Tim from Booking Layer. We'll talk about how booking layer helps surf camps and serve houses to improve their operations and self-serve packages.
[00:00:19] We will also discuss how booking layer started, how they got their first customers and how they operate as a remote team. Hi team. I remember booking layer a couple, couple of years ago. I met your colleague in Lisbon. I think it was four years ago. I met your colleague in Lisbon and we, uh, we were chatting about the project and I remember looking on the website and, uh, booking there at the time was the software focused on, um, On surf, Cannes and surf schools to manage their operations and their bookings.
[00:00:56] When I looked on their website, now I see that you [00:01:00] are doing more staff and, and, and the software is much more advanced. Yeah. So yeah, it it's, it started this as something pure for surfing. Um, as I figured out, um, when I was visiting a surf camp like six, seven years ago, no, probably even more eight years ago.
[00:01:17] Um, Um, there was a need for something, for like a booking system, because I was riding then to make my booking. I was writing them an email and, um, um, it took like two days before I got an answer. Um, and also onsite. I remembered that things were, were reorganized. Everything was on pen and paper and they were hustling around with Excel files.
[00:01:40] So that's, that's how the ID started with booking there to come with a simple reservation system for, um, let's say surf games and. I think also my, the tech line on the website that I, uh, the first website was like software for surf camps. Um, but yeah, over time, um, [00:02:00] um, other people or other businesses started to, to contact us and, um, and we figured out that it works perfectly for other businesses as well.
[00:02:07] Um, and I think today we, we, we still have. I think five, uh, 75% of our clients are, uh, related to surfing. So they either run a surf house or, or a camp. Um, but the other 25%, and that percentage is now growing, uh, comes from other niches. Um, so we're doing also a lot of retreats, sport games, um, um, and, and, and well, yeah.
[00:02:33] Um, anything in the middle it's it's it's it's um, We, we basically can help everybody who is selling more than just explanation. And you said that, uh, you saw this, uh, This problem when you were traveling and, uh, and that surf cams were not automated, but where are you at the time, a programmer developer that you could build [00:03:00] a software or, because I think that many people see this type of like, Problems and opportunities, but then from the idea to actually build something is, uh, that's, that's a very long, a very long way.
[00:03:16] So what was your background or how, how, how did you build the first, uh, first version of the software? Yeah, so it, it helps, um, I think a lot that I was able to, to coat, I do two projects in the past. I taught myself how to, how to go and. Um, so I was able to do that first tuition. Um, and, uh, luckily I've, um, I've met people along the way who did a much better job in, in, in, in building the project or helping me build a product or the product.
[00:03:48] Uh, but the initial version, I, yeah, I did both the front end and the back end myself and, um, um, yeah, and I was working like six, seven days a week. It was almost like nonstop. [00:04:00] It was traveling and, and coding. Um, Um, um, all the time and it was really fun. I, I, um, I were just talking before this podcast, we're talking about, about our, our, about our events.
[00:04:15] And, um, back then I also had, um, I had a Volkswagen and it was just traveling around, um, um, meeting my, my potential and future customers. So who was the first customer? Was it that surf camp problem? Yeah, no, this is the funny thing. They stubborn forties. They, uh, they, they're still not the clients that don't.
[00:04:40] We have many other ports, these clients by now, but, uh, funnily enough, that surf camp, where I, where I learned surfing, it's not a club, it's not a customer, but, um, now quickly I'm not. I think once I had something out, I made a website and, and, um, and it got some initial traffic and, [00:05:00] um, um, one of the fairs who re reached out to me was swing from Pura, Vida.
[00:05:05] Um, France. Um, and so we had a good connection and then we just decided that that would be honest on, on site for like three, four weeks. And he would host me for free and I would, um, sort of like figure out what the last 20% of the features that were needed for, for, for his booking system. Um, And that was really helpful.
[00:05:30] And, um, and yeah, from then on, um, more and more clients found me and, and quickly yeah, it became, um, booking there as we, as we know, as we know with no. Yeah. Um, one thing I know about their, your company is that, uh, your, you have a remote team or semi remote team. So people work from, from anywhere. Probably help you now during [00:06:00] the, the Coronet crisis that you were not affected, uh, so much because of this it's people already were used to work from home or from coworking spaces and, uh, the productivity didn't go down.
[00:06:16] How, how Corona effected you in this way? Like, uh, in your, in your team. I'm not asking now about the business, because I can imagine that. With business it's it's in hospitality. So, um, there is definitely strong impact, but in the team, and, and you also mentioned that you have the, uh, you have a small office in a Basque country.
[00:06:39] Yeah. Yeah. So, um, um, we do have, we do have a small office down in bus country, and I would say half of the team is working from there. It's most of the time that, uh, down there has, we're pretty flexible about, about remote working and the other part is nearly fully remote. So we meet with the whole team to get her one once or [00:07:00] twice a year.
[00:07:00] Um, Yeah, I would say 50 it's it's about 50, 50, 50% is fully working remotely. Uh, 50% is, is, uh, in around that office. Um, and we, yeah, we picked that office just because we want it to be closer to our customers and, and close to the ocean so that we, that it's easy to have some playtime in between. Yeah. So the productivity stayed the same because you have already like remote work processes and everything now during yeah.
[00:07:34] Sorry. So, um, yeah, Corona has affected in that way. It's this hasn't been much of a change. Um, as long as we have a wifi and a laptop, we can do, we can do our, our job. So, um, yeah, no. And that sends not much has changed. How is the bookend layer different from other software? Because I know like there are a lot of vacation rental software [00:08:00] is a lot of hotels booking.
[00:08:02] Software's a lot of software just for a channel management, like synchronizing your bookings with different, um, OTAs and, and channels. So what makes a booking layer special comparing this to these other softwares? Yeah. So, um, so you're right. There are like hundreds, if not thousands of, um, property management systems or software tools to manage, um, the reservations of beds, beds or rooms, um, and, and, and what makes booking, they are specialists that, um, um, we do more than, than just accommodation.
[00:08:40] So we can also help you with the planning and booking side of, um, activities services. Um, and, and sellable items. Um, so that's, you could say it's more all around and it helps the camps and retreats worldwide, which does sell more than just the beds. Um, and, [00:09:00] and yeah, that, that's what makes us different. I yeah, but basically if I can simplify like you, uh, your customers are able to sell packages.
[00:09:12] Yeah. It's commendation, but they can sell packages. I see that there is a huge complexity there because you, uh, I can imagine that some surf camps, they want to sell, uh, everything in one package when customer comes to their website and others, they want to sell just. Some accommodation and then sell additional services as ad-ons during the, during the process between the booking and, uh, between the check-in.
[00:09:43] And I can imagine that third tab of, of your, of your customer, of your user, they, they just sell their accommodation and then they, they want to. They want to upsell their customers during the state. So they don't book any customers, don't book, any, any [00:10:00] surf lessons. They don't book any, any additional activities, but once they arrive, they see how awesome it is, or they hear feedback from other people and they want to do it.
[00:10:10] They want to join. And so can you cater all these three types of, of surf camps or it's more like the, uh, in the beginning, when the surf camp, like when somebody is booking the surf camp, uh, they can book a whole package. Yeah, no, I, we, we can, we can cater for all scenarios. The funny thing is during the initial three, four years of building the software, um, um, um, basically figured out all the different needs.
[00:10:39] Um, so we got all these crazy. Yeah. Um, um, um, set ups. Um, some of them were very simple as straightforward as you were saying yourself, like sort of like a fixed Saturday to Saturday package, um, where, um, where they, um, The itinerary is pretty, pretty straight forward. Um, uh, till [00:11:00] yeah, places where you can define the duration yourself and, and, and, and configure all the add ons.
[00:11:06] Um, so we, we designed a booking flow that that can do both. Um, and sort of back office, the business owners, able to, to define these packages and, and define what's like base, what's an add on, um, you can, you can do cross selling and then apart from the, the, we call it from the office, but the booking, the booking form, we also have a customer portal and that portal is used by guests before their checking, but after their booking, To, um, um, to purchase extra ads, but also to, to print the receipts or to, um, to leave additional details such as like details they need to, uh, provide the business, the camp or the retreats, uh, for an airport transfer, for instance.
[00:11:49] And you have a, you have a lot of data, uh, and a lot of customers. So, and this, I understand that once [00:12:00] you are building the business, you want to create a lot of flexibility for the customer so they can decide, uh, how they are going to use the software, but based on the data, can you say that. What is the most efficient way to sell the packages?
[00:12:15] Is it like, is it more efficient to sell it, like at the, during the time of the booking or it's better to sell during the, the process between before the check-in or sell it onsite? Like what's the best approach in your, in your opinion? Yeah, well, to be, to be very honest with you, we've been so busy in, in, um, in buildings or silver over the years and, and, and, and we've, we've refactored a lot.
[00:12:43] We've submitted basically, we've, we've rebuilt, um, a lot of components of the software. Um, and we will always have the, have kept the team pretty, pretty small. So it's not that we have like an, you know, an enormous amount of development capacity where I'm also doing a lot of development, still myself. [00:13:00] Um, But I think the, the, the result of that, that we, we, uh, we're now finally getting to a stage of being able to, um, um, yeah, take some time and look, look at the data and then come up with maybe new tools that are really helpful for our clients, um, to, to the tap into the data and, and, um, and advise them how to better use, um, uh, better set up their booking form or yeah, better designer booking flow.
[00:13:31] Um, so to be honest, yes. Obviously we have, we've seen so many scenarios and, and, um, and as we help our clients, we get, it's a pretty, um, personal service because we, um, we take a lot of time in, in, um, in setting up accounts, so listening to their needs and then, um, also advising them how to set up the packages in the, in the system.
[00:13:57] So there's a lot of guidance in the beginning. [00:14:00] Um, and yes, obviously we have, um, uh, what is it ideas about how you could better sell or sell more? Um, but to defend it with the data, the data that we are that we're collecting, um, Um, we're not doing much with that, to this date, but yeah, it's, it's definitely something we could do in the future.
[00:14:20] Yeah, definitely, definitely huge opportunity there. And, uh, and the Holy grail of, uh, of, uh, setting surf camps because, uh, yeah, I see a lot of, a lot of these businesses are small independent surf camps and they don't have. They don't have with who to compare. And if you can give them this insight and advices, you can definitely, uh, improve their business because I saw on their website that you have lot of, uh, uh, bigger surf cams that have multiple locations and this, uh, these businesses, they have this insight because they can learn [00:15:00] from their location in Portugal and apply it to their location in the Bali.
[00:15:05] Um, but if you have just one small surf camp, uh, let's say in the bus country, you don't have much comparison your competitors around. You don't want to share with you a lot of insights. So, uh, you are very limited and there is not much data on, on internet about, about this specific things, maybe in general, about the hospitality and hotels and hostels.
[00:15:31] There is, there is a lot of information and data you can learn from, but specifically about surf cams and serve houses and surf lodges. There is not much, there is not my information. So this is definitely a good, a good direction to go to trying to find patterns and share these insights with your customers.
[00:15:54] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I'm also curious, [00:16:00] like, based on this, uh, uh, you maybe done need to have like specific numbers, but just by visiting all these surf camps and having some data, you must, you must have some idea, like, what is the hoot, uh, Size of the surf cam to run, or the question is if, imagine that you would like to open your own surf cam serve house.
[00:16:30] Yeah. And what would be the setup? It just a hypothetical question. Like what would be the set up in the, and I'm, I'm going to ask like the, the number, the number of beds. The number of beds, uh, uh, the luck, the location, uh, buying the property somehow with the loan, the mortgage over renting the property.
[00:16:57] And, uh, [00:17:00] what type of services besides of serve lessons with you? We'll do offer, or maybe if you offer, if I'm the server license services. So this was, this is hypothetical question. It's a funny question because it's, it has crossed my mind sometimes, but I have to be honest, I don't see myself opening a serious game or launch or, um, how hypothetically, um, I think it would be.
[00:17:29] I think I've seen a lot of like very, uh, personal, um, um, services, or like, let's say the individual surf coaches, um, sometimes also running a guest house. So like, especially those small, smaller setups, I think. Hmm. I would have personally, I would have more, more with that than running a big show, uh, because I think the more, more, more stuff you have, the more, the more stress at all, or number [00:18:00] more responsibility in the more worries.
[00:18:02] Um, so I'd say. Smaller is better in that way. Um, but Germany, personally, that fits me better. And if, if I would open up some, uh, some business myself, I think it would be, would not even be, um, one place. Um, I think it would be a, um, uh, what is it a, um, uh, Would it be something on wheels? I think it would be, it would be just a, um, it's also like, I cannot pick a place where to live myself, first of all.
[00:18:37] And then also when it comes to, let's say, let's say we stick to surfing. Let's say it's a business around surfing then I don't, there's so many great places worldwide. I don't know where to. Where I would want to base myself and be the sort of like fixed for 20, 30 years. Um, so I'd say my business would be, would run an event and maybe I would just, it would be one on one.
[00:18:58] Um, [00:19:00] and, um, yeah, or maybe two fans, some, some like sir Fati kind of business and there is, but it's yeah. Then it's probably high value and, or it's just, you do just do it for fun because it's. It's hard. It's probably hard to do a business around it. I think some guys have tried it and it's it's it's it's it's not easy.
[00:19:21] Um, but let let's say it's, um, it's a Safari. Yeah. Yeah. So something, a very small mobile and personal life to it, the high value and, uh, and yeah, basically no copay or prime location, independent, no ownership. I would just lease the cars probably and edit surfaces. Yeah, it would be cool if it's just, but that's also what I like with a lot of our clients who provide more than, than just surf lessons.
[00:19:52] Um, And I've seen a couple of with them, combining it with climbing, for instance. Um, so let's say [00:20:00] you, you go for a week, you have three days of climbing and four days of surfing, and that's just depends on the wetter. Um, I really liked it. I think that's a huge, I think there's a trend there and, and, and more businesses will we'll we'll do that.
[00:20:15] Um, um, so combining different disciplines, not, not just, let's say, you know, going one, if you're close to a civic city with your camper launch to do one, one day, uh, a city trip combined with. I dunno, five, five mornings or five days of, um, of surf coaching. I think it's cool to combine it with mountain biking with, I dunno, slacklining yoga, you name it.
[00:20:41] I even see some of them doing it with combining with the language course. And for instance, as original attracting clients who stay much longer just for a language course, it makes more sense to be around for three, four weeks in one week. Um, this is, this is amazing advice for any. Any surf [00:21:00] camp and I, 100% agree with you that the, I must say the best concepts I have seen are those that can combine surfing with another thing, but that it's very strong.
[00:21:13] It's not just like, eh, additional service we are offering through our partner and upselling you with yoga lessons or whatever language curves. But if the surf camp is very strong in. Another thing, like let's say the language school, it's very powerful because you can combine the different types of bookings, different types of customers.
[00:21:37] You can have customers that actually come, not because of surfing at the wall and convert them to sell them some surf lessons, because well, they want to try and do that the best businesses. But for some reason, there are not many people combining. Two different things, maybe it's because it's, uh, it's, it's more [00:22:00] difficult and it's easier to start with just one, but it definitely gives you a competitive advantage.
[00:22:07] And, uh, mainly I, so what is your experience? I've seen many, mainly like combining surf and yoga, and also people organizing retreats for surf and yoga. Maybe retreats more for yoga sometimes combined with. With meditation. And what are the other, like the most common combinations you have seen? Um, yeah.
[00:22:32] Yeah. Good question. Um, um, what do you mean? Like the businesses who run, um, Surfing as a core, what is it? This surfing as a car, it's a surf house and they do something else very well. So you mentioned the language school, but I think, I think yoga. What are the other things you can combine? Well with surfing?
[00:22:59] Yeah. Obviously [00:23:00] yoga is pretty. It is it's the most logical or I almost see everybody doing it, but then yeah, so climbing is, is, is, um, It's not just one case that or multiple, I've seen that combines with climbing. I think that's a good one. Um, I've seen some cooking ex actually a cooking classes, um, language we've we've mentioned.
[00:23:22] Yeah. Uh, meditation, um, fitness also where like, Yeah, like surf related fitness or water sports related fitness exercises. I think it also makes, makes, makes sense. Um, but again, I would have to look at our, uh, database and, and come with a real answer because this is just, um, yeah, more based, based on feelings and what I've, what I've heard.
[00:23:47] But, um, probably the best answer is just to, um, Yeah, these are, these are great. Anyway, I would be cool if you send me after the, the, the [00:24:00] podcast recording this, uh, some of these insights and I will include them into the article, uh, so people can, can get them, uh, while listening. Yup. Uh, How do you, I'm curious, how do you onboard or find new customers?
[00:24:20] Is it still, uh, because of you traveling to different places and talking directly to our owners and. Convincing them that they need this type of software or the acquisition now is more like online and customers actually find you or come by recommendation. How does it work for you and for like sales and marketing?
[00:24:46] Yeah, no, it's, it's a lot to align notes. It's it's it's I would say 90, 90% is online. Um, And yeah, in the beginning I was, I was able to say like, yeah, to like a potential [00:25:00] customer, I would say, I know all my customers I've met all my customers. I've been surfing with all my customers. And that was pretty strong with obviously a, I cannot, I cannot say that.
[00:25:09] Uh, we cannot say that by now. Um, so yet most of our clients find us through Google through, um, a silver review site called Capterra, um, And, and yeah, the social media and we've, we've, we've started a few months ago to be a bit more active. So we're taking that more and more serious. Um, And because of all the, the booking forms.
[00:25:33] Um, so on there, the booking form, there's a little logo, um, from booking layer. And, and so if somebody is, let's say a business owner is curious about, about, about somebody else and the booking form, somebody else, this is there's also a way, um, they, they find us, um, But the traveling we're still traveling and we're still meeting, meet meeting clients, uh, on the roads.
[00:25:56] Um, and, um, um, [00:26:00] I really liked it. I really liked it a lot. Um, um, I'm trying to be like six months away from, from my base and, um, and during the six months where I'm finding clients. And so, and so really our team members, uh, work. And is it, uh, easier to convince, to use your software, the small independents or policies that maybe don't have, uh, the processes yet.
[00:26:28] And they're using pen and paper and some spreadsheets and it's a mass, but they don't run a big business or it's easier to convince more professional operators or. Let's say multiple locations and they already are maybe using a, some kind of software, but it's not good enough. And they just want to make right to something.
[00:26:53] What is a more personalized for them, for what, uh, which type of customer for you is easier [00:27:00] to. So convince, well, it's the small client is like, when, when you tell him or her about the software, it's like, Oh yeah, great. I need that. So that's sort of like the nature of feedback is, is, um, is, is, um, it's positive.
[00:27:15] So it looks like they, he or she is easy to, to convince them that the book is. It's a great tool to help their business. Um, but then the onboarding process of like getting them up to speed takes longer than compared to a bigger client who just has the experience of working with, with the booking system, um, and, and knows what to look for.
[00:27:38] So, I would say we, and especially now, because the silver has the fonts a lot over it over the years, basically, we've been working nonstop for about six years on, on the software. And I think it's gotten to a stage where we're a lot of bigger clients, customers who pass by or potential customers who swing by [00:28:00] seed us over and said, Oh, this is, this is, this is so our fans are, so it, fans is so complete.
[00:28:04] It's, it's, it's sort of like checks all my boxes and, and. Um, so yeah, I would say we're slowly, we're getting, we're getting, um, um, a real good fit with these medium to large, uh, larger, um, uh, clients that just need more than, than, um, a simple booking tool. But yeah, I have more demands in terms of like reporting, um, um, and security and so on and so on.
[00:28:36] So, um, But the funny thing having said that it's like when it's, because we're, we're listening closely to, to, um, um, Um, to our customers and, and receive a lot of feature requests. And I'd say that sometimes, um, you can imagine that like bigger clients come with, um, um, interesting [00:29:00] features or a feature request, and then we build them and then they benefit the small ones, but it's, it's, it's it's I think it would say it's pretty, pretty 50, 50, and it's like, we've got a lot of, I think.
[00:29:10] Um, the software has improved a lot because of smaller clients as well. So I think it's benefiting, um, it's a nice benefit for every type of business.
[00:29:24] Uh, I can imagine that this small surf camps, so small surf houses, uh, they have a lot of challenges before they start using some software and, uh, And they don't realize it, right? Like I'm curious because you must have a lot of experience to pitching them the software and explaining them how the software is going to help them.
[00:29:52] And it doesn't have to be booking layer. It can be basically any other software just like to switch from a [00:30:00] pen and paper and XL and all that mess to something more. Organized. So what do you have seen, uh, as the main issue of the surf camps that are not using any software, uh, in their operations? What are the main issues like?
[00:30:18] Is it synchronization with the OTs or like, check-ins like, what's the main issue before they main issues before they start to use any software? Yeah. Yeah. So it's that. So you'd like, so you're not able to, um, um, distribute your, your, um, availability, um, automatically. So you can, you can basically never take direct bookings.
[00:30:42] That's obviously a big, big disadvantage. Um, Um, yeah. And the fact that, that, that, that data is not sort of like at a sense of place. And, um, and, um, also when you, what we see a lot is that, that our clients, [00:31:00] um, um, Um, let's say the staff works at, um, they work with, they usually work sometimes it's very seasonal or like every two, three years, there's a new, there's new stuff coming on board.
[00:31:13] So they have to train these, these, um, these people again, uh, for instance, the booking, the booking agents or the, or to host. And so if you have a system in place, you save a lot of time in, in training and, um, Um, it's writing your stuff. Um, it's the thing that, that's a big thing, sort of like going back to your question.
[00:31:33] I see also that, um, a lot of young people who start a business, they immediately pick, um, pick a system. So they, they, they, um, they build a very good looking website that does good in Google and they, and they pick a booking system from day one. And I'd say, let's say the older. Um, um, business owner who maybe is less, maybe a bit of, a little bit less tech savvy, [00:32:00] um, doesn't at a later stage and, and it yet, it's harder to convince him or her.
[00:32:05] Yeah. Um, I I've met a lot of, uh, uh, our owners of, of surf camps or houses that. There've been all talking about that they about need of the software, but they don't use any software. And when you ask them about after one year or two years, so what software do you use? They're still in the same stage, you know, like, Oh, we have been thinking we have been trying different softwares.
[00:32:36] But they are still undecided what to use because nothing is perfect enough. And yeah, and for me, it's like, that's why I asked before the question that I can imagine that it's difficult to sell a software to SALWAN who is, uh, who is, who has been already running a surf camp for a couple of years and [00:33:00] it's kind of working, right?
[00:33:02] Like it's working without the software. So why to like out automate and, and, and try to translate all your processes into software, because of course it's difficult. It's hard. You need to invest a lot of time for this transition. And when you start the new surf camp, it's kind of like natural because you are building the processes.
[00:33:24] So why not to build these processes on top of the, of, of the software? Yeah. No, it totally rise. It doesn't do right. Um, yeah. But I can imagine that there are a lot of things like, like mistakes that if you are not using software, like having double bookings during the high season, going more customers, then, then you'll have the beds and, and these type of things, because when you have a.
[00:33:52] And you are not using software. It's much easier to, to create a mess around you and, and don't [00:34:00] have idea about what's going on in your business. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, okay. Just to wrap, did that, uh, this app, uh, what, uh, what is the, what is your. Favorite surf, uh, location in Europe, in Europe. It's a difficult question.
[00:34:29] Yeah, I, I think I like the difficult, difficult, difficult, I would expect Basque country as you have there, your office, like a warm water surfer would still be honest. And it's a, um, but yeah, the French size, the bus country that's um, um, yeah, I love being there and, um, I, yeah, I love, I love these beach breaks as well.
[00:34:56] Um, But to be, I know you [00:35:00] said, you said the limitation to Europe then it's um, yeah, let's, let's say French bass country, but, um, yeah, if it will be outside, Europe is, would be an easy question for me where it would be outside of Europe. I like left-hand point breaks a lot. And, um, I just came back from Peru and, um, um, in terms of like, yeah, obviously every country comes with difference.
[00:35:26] Um, Different things. But, um, if it, if you're just judging the wave quality, um, um, and I think it's a great, it's a great place to learn, to improve a lot because, um, it's just like, like, like, um, that there's so many waves and so many, there's so much, so many empty waves and, and there are so long and you can.
[00:35:51] Yeah. If you make a mistake, you just wait until the next gun rolls in, I think. Yeah. Um, and for, if you, I think [00:36:00] Morocco, uh, closer to home and Peru a bit farther away from here, I think are great places to, to practice, to get, to get, to make a lot of progress in like a short time, because with obviously with, with, with tides, with beach rigs, with all these changing conditions, it's hard to sort of like get to the next level.
[00:36:18] Um, if you cannot dedicate. Um, if you, if you're, if you have to work or if you have to go to school and, and, and your time is limited, so to say, um, so if you just have two weeks of, of spending, um, um, time to, to let's say, get better at surfing, then I think those are two examples of countries where you can, um, um, yeah, improve a lot, improve a lot.
[00:36:46] Yeah, I like LA Marco as well, and Barrow is on my list. So, uh,
[00:36:57] perfect. Uh, thank you Tim, for your [00:37:00] time. Uh, and, uh, yeah, uh, It was, uh, it was fun episode. And, uh, hopefully we can go to serve somewhere together because we are now bought in Netherlands, but both in, in currenting. So maybe we can, we can meet in the next week, somewhere on the Dutch coast. That was good. And then to be honest, I've never served in the Hollins.
[00:37:26] It is embarrassing. I know I ran late. Uh I'll uh, no, let's do that. And the. I'm not even sure if I have a wetsuit for deduction. Let's see. Well, yeah, no, let's, let's manage that. That sounds good. And I'll make sure you get those, those stats for the art school and, um, yeah. Thanks for having me.
