Thijs is the managing director of Viking Bookings, a water sports booking software company.
Thijs was running a kitesurf school company in the Netherlands but after a few years, he realized that they met the limits of what is humanly possible when running a watersports company.
He contacted a local software development agency to help him to solve this problem and together they designed a solution that was successfully automatized the processed in the kitesurf school.
But there were thousands of other water sports companies that were managing reservations all the processes manually. And that was an opportunity to offer this custom solution as a packaged software.
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Transcription (automatic, sorry for typos)
[00:00:00] Peter: [00:00:00] Hi there. You're listening, surfing this podcast where we interview inspiring surf entrepreneurs and we discuss about the businesses and ideas. I'm Peter. And I'm your host today? I'm going to talk with ties from Viking bookings. What is a software for surfing schools? Kite surfing schools, diving schools, and basically any other sport activity company to manage their reservations.
[00:00:23] Hi ties. Let's start with the very simple question. How did you come up with this business idea?
[00:00:28] Thijs: [00:00:28] I, Peter, thanks for having me, man. Um, yeah, Viking bookings is a software that was created for own kite school because we were looking to automate, uh, the managing of the instructors and the students. And it didn't exist at the time.
[00:00:45] Um, we were spending a. Two, two people full time on the planning, uh, with 30 instructors. Um, and after we built this software, we only had one person for half an hour a day, uh, doing the [00:01:00] planning. So, um, basically, uh, our solution is a solution that really helps, uh, watersports schools to automate their whole planning.
[00:01:12] Okay.
[00:01:13] Peter: [00:01:13] And it's, it started the way that you said that you had your own. Um, uh, kitesurf school and what was, uh, I can imagine that it was like a lot of work. I was reading on their website that you had 4,000 customers a year. I can imagine that it was like a lot of work to, to manage the, the school. Where did you find time to, to create your own software and automate all these processes with all these day to day tasks?
[00:01:43] Thijs: [00:01:43] Well, of course, here in the Netherlands, we have, uh, the, um, different seasons. So, uh, the main season is summer. And then before summer there's a fall and after an Arab spring or the other way around actually. But, um, uh, so in the [00:02:00] winter we have plenty of time to look for, uh, things to help our lives get easier.
[00:02:06] Uh, so that's why we found the time to do this. Uh, in the winter we could build on our business and in the summer we were working in our business.
[00:02:16] Peter: [00:02:16] But you also, when we discussed before you mentioned that you also partner with the local, uh, digital creative agency that helps you a bit with, uh, building the software,
[00:02:28] Thijs: [00:02:28] right?
[00:02:29] Yeah. So I'm not the builder of the software. I had this school and I, I, like you said before, we had a, it was actually 3000 students a year. Um, and, um, but imagine planning those students. I mean, there's people who will book one, lesson, two lessons, three lessons, four lessons. Then you have different languages.
[00:02:48] You have German Dutch, Spanish, English. Then you have all different types of experiences. So I'm already had a few lessons, some already, some of them had non [00:03:00] lessons, some go really fast, some go really small. Then you have different weights. You have different ages. You have people who don't want female instructors.
[00:03:11] Well, I can keep going for quite a long time, but this is a big mix of people that you have to automate. And then besides that, We're talking about guide surfing here and in criteria for when you have group lessons, private for two lessons, private lessons. Now how about if you have a school who does wind surfing as well and where you have instructors who can teach windsurfing, but cannot teach hiding.
[00:03:36] Um, so looking to find a software, um, to automate this to quite a while, uh, I've tried about, uh, maybe 10 or 20 different types of softwares, um, and nothing seemed to fit and nothing, nothing seemed to work. Um, so what I did is basically I, um, I wrote down my problem and I went to a few agencies. Uh, to see if [00:04:00] they could solve this problem.
[00:04:02] And, uh, yeah, this agency, beer and tea, uh, they're in barely die. It's in, uh, close to where I'm from, where I was born. Um, they said we could build that solution for you. Um, so over the winter day they build this solution, um, in first for our own school, I mean, we didn't want to bring it onto the market. It was just for ourselves, um, to, to empty our heads during the season.
[00:04:27] Um, and, uh, yeah, so would they build it over winter? And right before season started, it was, it was done and we could start using it.
[00:04:39] Peter: [00:04:39] Nice. Sorry. What's the, what would you recommend maybe to someone who doesn't use any software, like how to, how to find the time or. How, how to make this make ration from the menu planning into software. Because from my [00:05:00] experience, I never had the surf school, but I had chance to talk with many surf surf school owners.
[00:05:08] And I noticed that they, they want, they have this willing to. To use some software, but it just too complex for them to like where to start. Like what's most of them, they will tell you that they tried many different softwares and none of them, uh, would fit their, their needs. And they're a bit stacked, so it's not like I understand from my understanding, this market is not like the service school.
[00:05:38] They don't, they don't want to use software. And that's why they are doing things manually. But the problem is that they, they don't know where to start, how to put their, maybe all their data or customize the software for their specific surf school. So what is your experience here? Like when you talk with the.
[00:05:58] The [00:06:00] surf school operators that don't use any software. And they think that it's too complex to use some software. They rather do things manually because they already tried a lot of different things.
[00:06:12] Thijs: [00:06:12] Well, this is my ideal prospect, actually, because if someone has already tried a few different softwares, then they know how hard it is to get things automated.
[00:06:23] Um, what, what, in my case, I mean, I'm talking with the Viking hat on right now. Um, what people do is they come to my website and they request a demo. And in that demo, I share my screen with them for half an hour or 45 minutes. And I show them through the software. And this is when their mouth falls open.
[00:06:41] They're like, wow, is all of this possible in a software? And with other softwares, then those surf school owners day would have to set up the whole software themselves, figure things out. Um, we've done. Uh, lots and lots of schools already. We've helped them through [00:07:00] this, uh, phase of automation where in a short period of time, you're going to have more work.
[00:07:05] But after that short period of time, you're going to lose lots and lots of work and save a lot of time. Um, uh, so I showed them the Skype and, um, uh, after that, mostly they're quite convinced. I mean, they really feel like they, they want to start using it and that's when they decide to work with us. I always tell them if you decide to work with us and we decide to work with you now, what does that mean?
[00:07:31] The school can send me there. Um,
[00:07:34] Peter: [00:07:34] uh,
[00:07:36] Thijs: [00:07:36] Their logo, their lesson packages, their general conditions, their house colors, basically everything we need to set up the software for them. We will build the software for them in the backend. And, um, uh, the moment they received the login, basically they get a complete custom solution built for their school.
[00:07:57] And from there on, it's quite easy to start [00:08:00] using Vikings. Um, Of course, you still need to put in some time you have to get to know the software, just like you need to get to know to work with word or with Photoshop or with any other self-aware. Um, but we, we try to make it as simple as possible for the customer.
[00:08:19] Peter: [00:08:19] When I'm, I'm very curious when you had this idea and he tested different softwares. And after that you wrote the, the list of the features or you're the ideal software and you started to contact the, the agencies that might be, that might be interested to help you with this. What was your plan to, uh, to build the software just for your.
[00:08:46] Uh, guide service school or was aura, or you already had the plan to scale it globally and sell it to other serve schools?
[00:08:54] Thijs: [00:08:54] No, it wasn't in the first, uh, set up. It was just for ourselves. [00:09:00] Um, I mean, do the calculation, if you need two people full time on your planning. I mean, people here in Europe, in the Netherlands are expensive, man.
[00:09:09] It's thousands of dollars or thousands of euros, uh, every single month that you're, you have to pay them. Um, and then still it's error phone work, right? It's it comes quite close. You know, you don't want to put someone who is, uh, 20 kilos with somebody who's a 40 kilos, um, or, or a 10 year old girl with a 40 year old guy.
[00:09:34] Um, so, um, uh, uh, no, this is the main reason we wanted to do it just for ourselves to, to save money and to get rid of all the little mistakes. Uh, and it worked quite well for ourselves.
[00:09:50] Peter: [00:09:50] How did you, how did you get the first, uh, customer, like, well, you are the first customer when you started to use the software, but when, when did you realize that, Oh, [00:10:00] actually this can be useful for other service schools and I can sell it to them.
[00:10:04] Was it like they did happen that you started to offer it to other schools or somebody else contacted you. Like, Hey, I want your system as well. And okay. How much are you going to pay me for that? What was the story behind it? How did you get this first, second, third customer?
[00:10:20] Thijs: [00:10:20] Well, I noticed in the market here in the Netherlands that a lot of people were looking for something like we had built, um, Uh, so where did they came to us?
[00:10:30] Or I went to them. I'm not sure anymore, but there was a common interest in how, in a product like this. Um, Um, our, our first Otter customer, uh, it was the, the, the type of school was the exact same as ours. So it had a one-on-one fit. So it was fairly easy to connect them. Um, but this is when the seed in my head was planted, that I could actually, um, get this product to a higher level and, um, uh, uh, sell it to more [00:11:00] schools.
[00:11:00] I mean, it's safe. Me personally, so much headache. And it gave me so much more clarity in my own company that I thought, wow, this is a real eyeopener for other companies. And, you know, maybe even bigger companies, multiple sports companies, um, Uh, so yeah, my, my, my passion really is to, um, uh, to get the business processes as easy as possible for all different types of businesses.
[00:11:30] Uh, but yeah, I'm going somewhere else. That was our first customer.
[00:11:36] Peter: [00:11:36] Okay. It went so well that now you don't run any kitesurf school cancer center, but, uh, you are focused on Leon. Scaling the whacking software around the world. Right? So the, the idea worked, you, you quit your, you quit your business that you were [00:12:00] doing before, just because you saw that this software business is actually actually much bigger.
[00:12:05] Thijs: [00:12:05] Well, yeah, and my passion is, is on a different level. I mean, I've been running a water sports schools, my whole life. I'm 35 years old now. Um, I've been working in it for, since I was 20 years old. Um, so which means I was 12 years working in, uh, in water sports companies. And I was a bit Don, too, you know, I was done with, uh, with all the instructor, getting new instructors, every season, all the customers, uh, et cetera.
[00:12:37] I mean, Right now, now I'm away from it for a few years when I come back to it, I think it's fun again. But then I was in it over my head and this felt like, wow, this is something where I can fill up my own time, um, where I can build on something that works for other people like me, other guide school owners who [00:13:00] have the same.
[00:13:01] Or the same type of person. Um, uh, and, um, uh, it was actually a quite big risk because I sold the kite school, uh, before I had enough customers in Viking, um, to make sure I had a good income. So, uh, it was quite a risk to start fighting bookings. But,
[00:13:22] Peter: [00:13:22] uh, it worked out, uh, I, I see on their website that you, besides of the surf schools and kites kites schools, you are offering the software to two similar businesses like the, the, the sailing schools or dive.
[00:13:42] Equipment rentals. What's the, what is your plan for scaling the business? They want to add more sports or do you want to maybe like, that was the first idea that came to my mind that, Oh, actually, if you have a software [00:14:00] for, uh, managing the surf school surf lessons, Maybe you have a lot of customers that they have also accommodation and they ask you like, Hey, we already manage, we already organized all our server lessons with Viking, but we need to use another software for, for, uh, managing the accommodation, the surf camp.
[00:14:21] So what's the, what's the direction where you are trying to go. Like, do you want to like scale globally, the sports you already have or add more sports or add? Uh, for instance, uh, other, other types of business, like accommodation?
[00:14:35] Thijs: [00:14:35] Well, it's funny that you ask, this is the number one thing. Uh, we are struggling with or not struggling with, which we have to decide our strategy is.
[00:14:45] Um, up til now, we've always decided to go deeper into the water sports automation. Uh, the reason for that is, um, choose and be chosen, uh, which means that, um, uh, if we really [00:15:00] tackle every single box that a water sports school. Uh, struggles with, um, then we are the obvious choice for them. If we are going wider and going through different types of sports, then the software is going to be wider as well.
[00:15:16] I mean, is this good? Is this bad? I don't know. But so far. We're going deeper into the water sports and yeah, we'll have the strategy session, uh, uh, one or two times a year to, to discuss these types of these type of things. Um, uh, we are trying a few different markets just to see what's happening. You know, we've, we've connected, uh, outdoor sports company who has nothing to do with water sports.
[00:15:41] Now it seems to fit pretty well, but they, they have some small things that they'd like to have changed or. Do we have a different, but you know, um, uh, then on the other hand, we still need to, uh, keep all our water sports customers as happy as possible. So yeah, this is [00:16:00] a, it's a good question. And I cannot give you a real answer on it.
[00:16:05] Peter: [00:16:05] I can, I can imagine that it's a, it's a huge challenge because you always have to decide between the focus and, and scaling the business to broader audience. But I can imagine that. Just focusing on this, let's call it niche. The water sports can, it's globally quite a large business. And if you can get parts of this market, it's it's can be even more interesting than trying to chase other markets that they are already like they're already established.
[00:16:39] Software's at the software's for, for, for these markets. Uh, coming, coming back to Netherlands, I moved to, I moved to Amsterdam for four months ago and, and since then, I'm, I'm going to surf quite often. But before moving here, [00:17:00] before moving here, I didn't have very high expectations about surfing. And when I fell to my surf friends, even now that I'm going to serve in Netherlands, they're like, ah, come on.
[00:17:09] Like, there is no surfing in other lives. So how would you describe like surfing in other, for people who've never been here for the recommend someone to come and try surf spots in. In Netherlands. And if he has, like, in what locations, where, what would we, what would you recommend?
[00:17:26] Thijs: [00:17:26] Which there's books? Well, personally, I'm a very bad surfer.
[00:17:30] I'm a very good windsurfer and a very good kite surfer. And I'm a sailor. So anything involved, wind and water I can do, but surfing, I've been to Australia for three months to really try. I always try to bite myself into something and really get to know it. I did this with surfing and it's just not for me.
[00:17:49] I mean, I can, I can stand up. I can not ride the white water, but that's about it. Um,
[00:17:58] Peter: [00:17:58] and what about though? [00:18:00] The wind surfing sports like windsurfing and cattle.
[00:18:03] Thijs: [00:18:03] I mean,
[00:18:04] Peter: [00:18:04] the
[00:18:04] Thijs: [00:18:04] areas world champs, uh, they, they, there's lots of world champs coming from the Netherlands at the moment. You have you already funk in the wind surfing, uh, you have Rubin Lanta, um, Uh, in the kite surfing, Kevin Lang Harry, you rezone a old ex uh, number ones in the world.
[00:18:23] Um, the Netherlands is really nice, man. I mean, it can be cold and it can be tough, but the sea gets high and rough and the wind gets hard and the conditions are always changing. And throughout the whole coast, um, there are some great spots and, um, like I live in , it's the number one beach down here in the Netherlands.
[00:18:45] I mean, if I wake up in the morning and I open my curtains, what I see is people on their bike with their wetsuit on and their board under their hand. And the other day, I see them on their bike with a kite on their back. And the other day I see them on their bike with a [00:19:00] little card behind with the wind surf gear on it.
[00:19:02] Um, so yeah, escaping air is actually really, really nice. We have some, um, dams that go into the seed, which makes the waves quite glassy for the surfers. Um, there's special designated areas for windsurfing and kite surfing. So yeah, I just like it here, man. I would recommend and if there's anything else I would recommend, we have a few islands above the Netherlands they're quad.
[00:19:28] They have some quite sick conditions as well.
[00:19:33] Peter: [00:19:33] Nice. I must agree with you. Like so far. Uh, for me, being the spot number one, right?
[00:19:41] Thijs: [00:19:41] Where you go usually
[00:19:43] Peter: [00:19:43] go to surf and, and I like it there. I only serve, but I. I really like the, the fact that you can, it's popular for all these different sports. So when they're it's to win them, what is quite common in a scanning, and [00:20:00] then you can, you can switch to kitesurf or, or surf when it's glassy, you can go back to
[00:20:06] Thijs: [00:20:06] what I think is really cool here as well.
[00:20:08] Is. Um, we have these, um, these big beach bars who are serve schools at the same time. Like, um, you'll have, for example, hard beach, uh, those guys, they have a shop on the beach, they have a restaurant on the beach, they have a surf school. They have did they, they're a very big concept on the beach. And, um, what I really like about it is I, I, I have two kids, um, There were one and two years old or actually zero and two years old.
[00:20:38] And, um, uh, I can't wait for them to go on the surf camps. So every summer, these, these companies, they organize the surf camps here in evening. And then all you see is all these little kids having fun in the water, uh, having a great time with each other. I think that's really cool about scaffolding as well.
[00:20:57] I really looking forward to that period of [00:21:00] time with my kids.
[00:21:02] Peter: [00:21:02] Man. I love it. This, this surf surf collapse. I, I I've been in this, her to beach and also there is another one next to it called Aloha. And the concept is so cool that you. It's kind of club that you have the, you have the restaurant, you have the surf school, but you have, you have warm
[00:21:23] Thijs: [00:21:23] shower
[00:21:25] Peter: [00:21:25] and, and it's super comfortable.
[00:21:29] It's all like you have there. Everything you can come like nicely dressed from work and. Just grab the wetsuit and serve boards and go to serve. And then after serve to have a drink and I'm really missing this, uh, these type of places when I go to, to serve to Portugal or Spain that,
[00:21:50] Thijs: [00:21:50] uh,
[00:21:52] Peter: [00:21:52] during the summer is fine.
[00:21:53] But if you go there during the winter, You don't have this infrastructure, like the nice showers [00:22:00] and everything you'll have to you'll have to address or dress yourself
[00:22:05] Thijs: [00:22:05] on the nature of your car when it's cold with a towel around it has, it
[00:22:12] Peter: [00:22:12] does. It's magic.
[00:22:13] Thijs: [00:22:13] It's magic, but it. I think it's magic dude, to stand next to your car and you just had a six session and you get you change and you get in your car and you drive home.
[00:22:23] But, um, there's one more thing I wanted to say because we, we mentioned hard beach and we mentioned the lower, but they're all friends of mine. So I cannot say that, um, the shore is there as well. So you have to shore a low on our beach, all three of them. They're all cool guys.
[00:22:40] Peter: [00:22:40] Okay. Now we have, you all know.
[00:22:43] Okay, thank you. Thank you, uh, for, uh, sharing your story with, with Viking and everything was super inspiring. And, um, I guess, uh, we see each other in 78 very soon.
[00:23:00] [00:23:00] Thijs: [00:23:00] Cool, man. Well, thanks for having me.
